>> considering that young people were among obama's biggest supporters, i think it's very significant. young people have been big victims with government getting bigger, taxes going up, what do you find in europe? very, very high levels of youth unemployment. hello? same thing's now happening to america's young people. i think the lack of upward

mobility is a huge stachallenge, nots just for young people, for lower income people generally and obama thinks the answer is to make government bigger. >> that's, i think, what caused the problem. >> i want to get to that in a moment. david, based upon what we have seen, it seems he is not concerned about the did he hade let's listen to that. >> we should not be stuck in a stale debate from two years ago or three years ago. a relentlyly growing deficit of opportunity is a bigger threat to our future than our rapidly shrinking fiscal deficit. >> david, rapidly shrinking, the deficit is going down. $17 trilli $17 trillion debt and a deficit higher than the one he received from his predecessor? >> the debt is higher. we would be in much better economic shape and young people would have better job opportunities if we weren't shrinking so fast. we have gone from

10%, basically what he inherited down to 4% of the economy and on the way down to 2% by the end of the president's term. if he were not to doing this about spending and we were invest can in the future, in education, research, we are seeing american research going to china and we are not spending tax dollars on basic research, which corporations don't do. >> that's always been done by government. so, neither the finding about young people is surprising, nor is the president's focus. yeah, we have brought down the deficit is what he is saying, significantly, 90% of americans seem to be unaware of this. million americans receiving disability benefits. 47 million on food stamps? >> yeah. >> torn in 4 million on long-term, getting unemployment benefits. the president's initiatives call for more spending. we still have a very big deficit and a very big nut to pay to foreign countries.

is more spending the way to go? >> we are not paying to other countries. >> that's a misunderstanding to what the deficit is about. the united states government kate never go broke so long as it is a cough ren with monopoly control of its currency. the reason we have people on disability, people work until they can't and when the economy turns bad, employers reasonably and i have been an employer and had to meet payroll. those are the people you let go, people who can't really perform the job. so we always see in a recession a rise in debiliisability indications. but without a question, our biggest problem is jobs. we should have 9 million to 11 million more jobs than we do. and we don't because we are slashing federal spending much too quickly. we are not investing in it and we have created a host of policies that encourage companies to move jobs offshore and to not reinvest. >> dan, let's stay on the point of spending.

people who receive these government benefits, food stamps in particular generally need that money. they go right out and spend that money. isn't that stimulus that would be important to the economy at this point when it still hasn't fully recovered? >> well, that's the okay, take money out of your left pocket to put it in your right pocket, you are somehow richer. >> it didn't work in 2008 and didn't work for obama in 2009. it didn't work for hoover and roosevelt in the '30s. borrow money from the private sector and had the government spend it, you don't create more wealth. you are simply increasing the burden of government spending. i actually agree with david. i don't worry a lot about deficits but where we would disagree is i think government spending diverts resources for more productive uses as well as things like food stamps and disabilities, you create dependency and lure people into this trap of relying on the government and they lose their self esteem. they lose their ability to contribute to the economy. again, all we have to do is look

at the mess in europe to see where that path takes us. and what worries me about obama is we are not going to deal with inincome ine quiltty and mobility unless we take the economy. >> let's take talk about these mixed signs on the disney. consumer confidence is down. but on the other hand, it looks like private sector hiring is up. we have numbers that came out today, fairly positive. on the other hand -- we had home sales going up 25% in october. on the other hand, holiday retail sales have been weak. so, dan, the economy, something or has it really just started to turn around? >> the numbers, it could be a statistical blip, but in general, in general, compared to europe, we are doing okay. we are having two % growth or so averaging out over, you know, several quarters. now, with that being said, we used to have 3% average growth. so we are suffering compared to our normal pattern, and i agree

with david, if this was a normal business cycle, we would have nine to 11 more jobs perhaps. but where we disagree again is: how do you get those jobs? and i think bush, i mean obama, like bush, is making the mistake of going with the route of bigger and more federal intervention and i think we should be more like hong kong. >> the biggest government intervention that's coming is obamacare. listen to what the president had to say about that. >> the law is working in major way that benefits millions of americans right now, even as we have begun to slow the rides of healthcare costs, which is good for family budget did and good for federal and state budgets, and good for the budgets of businesses, small and large. so this law is going to work. and for the sake of our economic security, it needs to work. >> is he right, david? >> well, we need to have it work. america is spending for every

dollar per person, on an equivalency basis, the other 33 modern countries in the world spend and they all have universal healthcare, many of them with no out-of-pocket charges, for every dollar they spend, we are spending $2 and 4 killing us, that's nonsense. i don't know how the doctors, an airline pilot. nobody shops for airline pilots. we expect the airline produces someone who knows what they are doing in the cockpit of the plane when we trust them with our lives. what obamacare does is addresses the free rider problem. >> that's people who don't buy insurance that ends up costing the taxpayers because we, in effect, insured them. this is an idea, by the way, promoted by dan's former employer, the heritage foundation. i would argue we would be much better off if we had universal, single-payer healthcare because all of our competitors do and

they are getting better results for less money which ought to be our focus. >> i am sure dan would like to weigh in on that but i want him to weigh in on st. louis quickly if you can, dan, to close this off because the president's speech got virtually no play on network news tonight. it got very little play on the big news aggregators, cnn.com. so after the failure of the obamacare website over the past couple of months, has the media and the nation started to tune him out? what does that mean? because is the economy dependent going? >> i think the economy would be a lot better if the president would get out of the way and stop trying to help because what he proposes of policies are the problem and i am not basing it on a partisan point because bush got us in with big government. obama is digging us in deeper. why is the media not paying attention? he is giving the same speech, more government, higher taxes, more intervention, more

regulation. i guess we ought to have automatic french translation policy. >> dan mitchell and david k. johnson, appreciate you joining us to talk about this tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> switching topics now from the economy and freedom for financial equality for freedom for some of the smartest animals. the non-human rights project filed a habeas corpus suit in an effort to win release from a cage for a 26-year-old chim pans e called tommy. the suit will file for a 26-year-old cheek named kiko and two used in a research lab. the non-human rights project says it plans to file suits on bhaichld of gorillas, champ pansees and elephants, whales and dolphins. for more, i am joined in our new york studio by steven weis, the president of the non-human

rights project. i know your group said that chim pans ease are self-aware and ought often muss and to be recognized as legal persons with fundamental rights. what rights should they have? >> right now, they don't have any rights at

>> the owner wouldn't live there. worst of all, perhaps, he is by himself. he is in solid area confinement crime. >> the owner said he has tried to put him in a sanction wary him? >> call me. call me. call me. i will get him in a sanctuary. >> some members of the medical research community, however, are very opposed to this. this is a quote from the research. he told the science insider website assigning rights akin to what humans have would be chaotic for the research community and doctor susan larson, an anatomist at storage brook studying the way chimps move, everything i do with these animals i have done on myself. i understand animal rights act visits don't want these animals studied.

champ pans e studies played important roles in developing medicines for humans. first? >> well, the former head of nih last june said he had drunk the cool aid of animal experimentation. he thinks it was an error. the directliar of the nih is the one who said, we want to -- we don't think they should be used any more in nih sponsored. they are holding 50 back now that i think those 50 are going to go to sanctuaries. go? >> sharoninguaries. but they can't go there. so, we have a ranarranged with nap -- the north american prime mate sanction wary alliance. they have seven sanctuaries throughout the u.s. and that's where we want tommy and leo and hercules and

kiko to go. >> i know you want other animals, other high intelligence animals like elephants and the others we named. where do you draw the line, though? pigs are supposed to be extremely smart. anyone who has a dog knows how dogs have feelings and how much they react and how much they care about their human companions. so where do you draw the line on giving animals rights? >> we are not claiming that intelligence or feelings is a sufficient ground for giving them rights. what we are saying is autonomy is that when you are self-aware, you can self determine, you can choose how to live your life free from anything like the way we are. >> right. part of the resistance you are -- so much, many religions are based upon humans being different because we are self-aware, because we are the only ones supposedly can understand there is a past and a future and that we can reason. the reality is we now find many animals can do it.

>> champ pans ease can reason and they know well what's going on in the past and they can anticipate the futuretion including a future in which they confinement. >> what about animals at nice zoos where they are kept comfortabley and pieces that are endangered and where the propagation of the species depends in many cases on these breeding programs in captivity? >> we are just talking about trained champ pans e right now who are in a private domain, in ma cement domain. >> is it okay to have them in a miami zoo or the san diego zoo? >> i don't know. i know that they should be in large social scrapes and cared for in a way that looks after their interests. >> that's the difference between a thing and a person. a thing is invezible and --

invisible and alive for the benefit of a person. a person lives for himself. and so you would have someone who would be caring for the champ pans ease for her own good and not the good of the owner. >> are you concerned if you lose, as someone has said, it may be worse for the animal? >> we are in a strategic litigation campaign. judges haven't heard this. we don't really expect to win much in the first level. but i think as time goes by, judges will see that our legal argument and the science behind this is well founded. it's a very interesting topic. thank you. coming up, why is the man who helped the u.s. get bin laden in prison and facing new charges with little chance of release? our social media, hermella is tracking the top stories on the web. what's trending? >> what if you were rejected not for lack of experience or skills habits.

>> that's what one company is doing. i will explain. what do you think? join the conversation on twitter at ajconsiderthis. and on our facebook and google plus pages.

>> a man who helped catch bin laden, a pakistani doctor enabled the u.s. to pinpoint where the world's most wanted man was hiding and he has been hit with a new murder charge. for more on the fate of him is matthew akins, an afghanistan-based journalist who the writes for "rolling stone," the doctor, the cia and the blood of bin laden. he jones us from pakistan.

great to have you with us. the doctor was arrested after the bin laden raid in may of between but he wasn't arrested. >> lost the audio feed. >> do you have it, matthew? >> can you hear us? >> it was revealed that cigna will start testing employees for nick teen. if you smoke or use e cigarettes you won't be able to get a job with the major insurer. it will be implemented in 21 states where it's legal including massachusetts, arizona and only impacts new hires. a company told al jazeera, cigna believes the company has a responsibility to encourage employees to be healthy

and to help cigna customers lead a healthy life. cigna is not the first to do this. companies who go after airlines policies. >> i hate smoking but it's not illegal. what's next? next? testing for caffeine? susan says what cigna is doing isn't illegal. smoker is not a protected status and the law allows drug testing. mey.aj.com. antonio, back to you. >> thanks hermella. we will try to get back to pakistan in just a moment when we come back from the break. >> start with one issue ad guests on all sides of the debate. and a host willing to ask the tough questions and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story weekdays at 5pm et / 2pm pt only on al jazeera america

the stream is uniquely interactive television. in fact, we depend on you, your ideas, your concerns. >> all these folks are making a

whole lot of money. >> you are one of the voices of this show. >> i think you've offended everyone with that kathy. >> hold on, there's some room to offend people, i'm here. >> we have a right to know what's in our food and monsanto do not have the right to hide it from us. >> so join the conversation and make it your own. >> watch the stream. >> and join the conversation online @ajamstream. >> if i am remembering history correct, the power to heal the sick just by looking at them. in fact, every member of the royal family has that power. it's true that the true fact, yep, the royal gaze of restoration. they just choose not to use it because they are selfish. that, of course, is will ferrell review. if you go by yahoo's top searchs

miley sicyrus came infive spots ahead of the healthcare player and with robert thompson. he joins us from syracuse, new york, the wire center for television and popular culture. great to have you guys with us. let's put up the top 10 list, my lee cyrus, the queen of the year overcoming the power of kim car dashian number one last year, all of the twerking did the trick for her. >> it's exciting for her where kim car dakar dashian has been on the list since 2009. she is elated. >> crazy like a fox. it worked very well for her doing what she did at the video music awards. one surprise here, bob, and themes things happen every sing

year is that more women are on this list at the top than men. the only man in the top 10 is place. >> there are amount of women, and that makes us think, wonderf wonderful. we are reaching some kind of cultural gender equity but you go down the list. unfortunately, a lot of the women who are on the list are on the list for being a little bit crazy. including my lee certa yylee. salina gomez is the only one who isn't tainted with one thing or the other. maybe the gender progress isn't as much as we thought it was. guy. >> correct. high on the list. >> number 5 breaks up with number 10. that's why she is number 5. >> she won, though. she won. >> but, you know, you just

mentioned jody ar ias. let's put up the top 10 news stories this year. >> that's what struck me the most when i saw this was that jodi ar ius was number 1. this was a trial that had no real news value. it was completely tabloid. we thought it was something we would never talk about this no matter what happened. why in the world are wie capita captivated by scanned lus trials that have no meaning beyond the trial, you know, a woman just killed her boyfriend? >> you are right. that was a local story. there were hundreds of things much more important. some places, headline news. it became the jodi ar ius channel. once you started watching it, while it wasn't an important news story, it was terribly compelling the way she behaved during that trial was mistifying and confusing,

and she was fascinatingly bizarre. the story, itself, was compelling. we make make these things up in crime shows. this was the real thing. i understand why people took to this stuff like catnip when it was given to them. i am less for giving of the news operations who decided to give it 10, 12, 13 hours of coverage of this per day. these tabloid scandals. >> all of the thing of people getting crazy and getting in trouble. speaking of repress, we also have a list of the top expressions which were put together as a combination of search volume and biggest leaps from last year. put one up. one was "duck dynasty."

that was a reality show and two scripted shows, "breaking bad" and "walking dead," the apocalypse stuff. why sort of a focus on cable when not as many watch those shows compared to the big networks? >> i think fem real finding them compelling. a lot you have to watch the night of. the cable shows fit nicely into that schematic of watching em sewed after episode. no drama shows. one show was a network show. let's look at the hawaii question. and on that one, we've got some interesting stuff on this one, too, and 1 of them has to do

specifically with de pablo. how did that happen? two of your top 10 why questions. you know, involve one character on a network t.v. show? >> there was massive curiosity about this. and one the top rated shows of all of television network and cable but on top of that, i think because she wouldn't say why she was leaving and nobody would talk about why she was midst. >> some of the questions people ask are not surprising. why is the skybly is one of the stop questions? why is the government shut down, but then again, people are asking why is rippa -- i love kelly ripa, but really?

here is what we have to remember. i think some people look at these top search and they throw up their arms and say, what is this world coming to if kim kar dashian and miley cyrus is what we are most obsessed with, we may as well pack up this se civilization experiment right now. but it doesn't measure what we are most obsessed with or what we care most about in our lives. i would say most people care most about their spouses, families, children, but they are not doing web searches on those that they really love. there are people who want to know what becomes of their loved one after they die. what is in store with us for the rest of eternity? you don't go to the internet to answer those questions. when you say, hey, kelly is on crunches today, you know you can get that answer there are certain types of questions that the internet is good for getting

answers to. but they don't mean -- it doesn't mean these are the things we are most interested in because at a time things we are most interested in are things the internet doesn't necessarily give to us. >> as you did these lists, as you put them together, do you think about people who were less popular this year than last year? losers? >> there are always a few winners and losers. mile e si miley cyrus is one of the big winners. one of the people we have been surprised to see do well is jackie chan. he made it high. did he do something interesting this year? it actually is because they -- he is the subject and people are search to go make sure he is still alive. i am glad to say he is. one thing that popped up in the

room when we were discussing this, "mind crafter" was the fourth most searched for term of all. mind craft, i guess. obviously, i am one of the people who didn't know about it. so, you learn. when you work at this, do you figure on tut what the demograps are? is it mostly boys, young girls? who is doing the searching? we obviously all do. but who does more of it? >> that's a great question. with yahoo, we were talking about hundreds of millions of unique users every month and billions of searches. we calibrated this to come up with these lists. younger people are on the internet, so you are going to have a much greater spread in younger demographics than you are in older demographics which gives some credence as to why so many of these lend to pop culture and so many are young.

>> it was so fascinating. i think the most interesting in all of these lists was under the watch list, a why is this, why is that? under the what, number 6 was what is a hashta g? it seems to me if you are going to yahoo and doing a search, you probably already know what a hash tag is. who managed to do that search who didn't know that? that one really amazed me? >> it was people our age, bob. >> that was us, not the young guys, us doing it. >> twerking, i am one of the people when everybody started saying that, i needed to find out what it was. i was somewhat alarmed. new york bureau chief, thank you very much for joining us. professor robert thomlin, it's great to have you both with us. we appreciate it.

we have managed to reestablish our signal with matthew aikens to doctor talk about the doctor who was arrested after the bid laudin raid after he helped the cia find bin laden. thank you for sticking with us. the reason he was arrested was not because he was working for the cia. he was arrested or at least the charges were that he had helped a terrorist group even though that group had kidnapped him and taken him for ransom. >> the government wanted today avoid the embarrassment nightmare of having to deal with the whole issue of the cia mission and so they essentially trumped up these charges in a tribal court system where the regular rules of evidence and trial by jury don't apply, and so you have seen murder charges.

>> they have been able to hide them because of these kind of charges. these charges he is hit with is surgery that he performed

>> fault lines investigates... fracking >> shale gas development could actually double the economic growth rates in the province. >> this is our land for thousands of years... >> do you drink money? you must have a lot of money to drink... >> as tensions rise, and protests turn violent, where will the debate lead? >> the situation was no longer peaceful or safe... >> they were bashing my head with their boots... they had their guns on me and everything.... >> how much more real can this get? >> fault lines only on al jazeera america

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in media for america. >> this entire region is utterly devastated. >> people our here are struggling. >> the fire jumped the highway we took earlier. >> your average viewer want's to actually understand how the health care law is going to help them or hurt them. >> they know they can get extremist bickering somewhere else. >> people say that we're revolutionary. our revolution is just going back to doing the best in journalism. >> this is the place to go watch high quality journalism, period. >> today's datadive, forbes look at the best countries for business. not only does the u.s. not top the list. we didn't even make the top 10. america placed 14th.

it is the latest drop in a 4-year slide of rankings from second place in 2009. the u.s. gets knocked for everything from having the highest corporate tax rate among developed current trees to new regulations on business and the federal reserve's easy money plan which could risk long-term inflation. sweeden kicks off the top 5 behind denmark, 4, the scandinavian kivents trees are praised for highly educated workers and gross domestic products. hong kong is third despite its economy grew 1.4 first as opposed to 5% the year before. new zealand was number 1 in 2012 but slipped to second this year. one of the world's highest gdps along with a lack of red tape and corruption. ireland claimed the top spot, up from 6th last year, three years removed from a $113 billion

bail-out from imf. forbes hailed them for their low tax burden, invest offer protection and various probe business incentives. it's not all rosy for ireland. a 12.8% unemployment rate and workers saw that i am their wages fall 17% in 2008 to 2011. still u.s. companies including google, linked-in invested $130,000,000,000 in ireland over the past five years. coming up, recent brutal attacks are raising concerns about safety at professional supporting event effects. why is it happening? next.

>> and now, a techknow minute...

>> the sports website deadspin announced it bought the vote for this year's hall of fame ballot. does this cast a shadow or office highlighting an already flawed system?

are you safe at professional sporting events? there has been a rash among fans. should you think twice about bringing your family? let's bring in dave zirin and author of ga"game over." it's great to see you. it bought a hall of fame vote, over 600 members get the vote this year. how did they manage to do that? bribe one of these guys? >> we don't know what they spent. they spent $1. >> that's all the person took. it sounds like it's a disident voter who agrees the baseball hall of fame has become a sham of a mockery of a sham. this is the baseball hall of fame. the all-time hits leader

>> give me a break. >> you know, use those examples but it's a national pastime. there is a romance to it. there is a romance to the hall of fame. >> well, statistically that

hasn't been the national pastime. but i will point out that the baseball hall of fame wants to be legitlegitimate it could vote in march vin miller, a labor leader to change the shame. but they have the commissioner who marvin miller cleaned his clock every time they were at the negotiating table. >> let's talk about dead spin when they announced they wanted the hall of fame voters, this is a quote from what they wrote, they said, it's an electric dom -- electi they camed the hall of fame voting process a farce saying what was meant as a way to honor great ballplayers is annual exercise in vigorously insulting them and thereby asserting the power of the baseball writer. that? >> if i would have written it, i hypocracy because what they are acting on now is this idea anyone who was in a locker room

with performance enhancing drugs should be bard and these why the team writers in the 1990s who wrote these poetic pathos to mark mcguire and sammy sotsa until they treated them like towed stools barry bonds started breaking homerun records they started to say, gee, something must be fishy going on here. >> that's part of the problem. it's like casa blanca saying i winnings. >> we have social media. let's go to hermella. >> i asked our viewers this question on twitter: is it okay that a vote was bought for the 2014 baseball hall of fame? they called the blog comedic 99% said yes. 1% said no. we did retreat this so the results may be skewed. even still, do you think baseball fans care or is it mostly sportswriters that have a

problem with it. >> it's without question mostly sportswriters. most fans look at the baseball hall of fame and don't understand how the decisions get made, why they get made and why only with this hall of fame do they act like they are the morality. >> all right, david. let's switch gears. let's talk about violence at sporting events. this past weekend, an n.f.l. fan was killed in the parking lot at the kansas city sheets. al fan was beaten into a coma outside dodgers stadium. that fan has not recovered from that. a dodgers fan was stabbed in san francisco in september. two people were shot and one was beaten unconscious at a 49ers game just two years ago. is it a growing problem? >> we don't have statistics that actually show that it might be worse than it was say, 10, 20s, 30 years ago but there are things we know. tailgating culture at professional games has made its

way up from the land of colleges to the pros and that means people are arriving at the stadium five or six hours earlier and getting liquored up, there is a culture that is people who don't have tickets. they bring a radio controlled or a radio or t.v. with batteries in it and watch the game outside the stadium. and that is one of the things. alcohol is anning aggravating factor. the power of the beer lobby to make sure it keeps getting poured is another factor. another is the owners themselves. they spend so much money on security when you are going in the stadium. they check your bags, no outside beverages, all of that stuff. and yet once you are out in the parking lot, there is nothing. there is nobody. all of that aggression, all of that alcohol, which if you so much as look the wrong way in the stands will get you kicked out, that projects it's into the parking lot where there is nothing but unforgiving concrete if you fall down. >> that's where the

more serious incide incidents have happened with much less security. is the big problem alcohol? lots of other current trees have limitations on alcohol. here, you can just keep pouring the alcohol down the gullet throughout the game, and it's a big profit for the tickets. >> because the beer lobby is huge in sports. beer barrons were the first owners of professionalspots tho roots run deep. the problem as well is that owners are so hung up on these concessions and consessions are really one of the huge profit imagi margins of anyone who has ever bought a $9 beer inside a stadium can tell you. that just as on to itself and feeds on to itself. >> on the other hand, is it really that big of a problem? because if you look at the numbers and you look at how many professional sporting throughout, millions of people are going every single weekend? it shouldn't be surprising some fights are going to break out. >> that's exactly correct, basic security, decent lighting, one example you raised about the

thing that happened in dodger's stadium, they didn't have the lights on after a night game because the team was trying to save money because the owner was going through a very rough divorce at the time. frank mccourt, and so they had to bring in the l.a.p.d. for future games to take over security. we don't want to turn our games into occupied territory. owners need to pony up with security guards. >> 15 seconds left but it does seem like it's happening more at baseball games than football games. is it mostly because of tailgating at those kinds of games? basketball and hockey? >> yeah. it's just not the same tailgating culture in basketball and hockey. it's as sample as that. it's where the stadiums are. it's the access to tailgating versus access to public transportation. baseball and football have more money in parking. tailgating. >> dave, always great to have you with us. thank you for the joining us tonight. the show may be over but the conversation continues on our website aljazeera.com/considerthis and

>> at least 25 people are dead as more violence erupts in the central african republic. united nations is meeting right now to discuss how to end the escalating crisis. you're watching the aljazeera news hour live from london. coming up, dozens killed in an attack on the defense ministry in yemen. >> a call for stability from tie land's king on his 86th burt day. >> claims the u.s.